Saturday, May 17, 2008



I believe there has never been a time in the history of the church that has been more
‘ripe’ for WATCHING for the coming of our Lord for his “Body”THEN RIGHT NOW !

The Scripture Prophecies, the signs in the heavens, the signs on the earth, the signs
of the times we live, the appointed times of God have all come together like no other time !

In light of recent shows on Prophecy in the News on “blood red moons and appointed
times of God” and the fact they mention we are in a time for a “watch” not a warning....
We should be sober as the Scripture says to be...and watching. .God’s people are waking up
and watching for the Grooms Return.

As in a tornado watch, there is a difference between a “warning” and a “watch”. I am
merely saying, BE AWAKE.....BE SOBER ! Now in 2008 and 2009 are the best 2 years to watch
for the Lord’s return since the day he left on the day He left over 2000 years ago. Even
Hal Lindsey stated the other day that he now believes the birth pains for the Lord’s
return have begun !

The following is a lengthy combination of posts made in and among God’s people discussing the importance of “watching” and
whether or not we are in the season of His Coming for us. These discussions sum up
well the fact that we are not “warning”, but most certainly “watching” !

Read and be SOBER ! If it is not 2008, then continue “watching” from 2009 on.
I do not know when all the signs of the times will ever come together as they are RIGHT NOW
God Bless,

Post 1:

Four 'blood-red' total lunar 2014 and 2015.......same ........ 1492, 1948 and 1967
Posted By: Vic
5/16/2008 9:19:18 PM

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Member Comments:
Four 'blood-red' total lunar
eclipses will fall on Passover
and Sukkot in 2014 and 2015,
the same back-to-back occurrences
at the time of 1492, 1948 and 1967

Click Here For Article


I have no idea with this stuff, but it's interesting I guess. Check out the cool picture chart near the end of the article over at Bill's site.

God Bless,


by Bill Koenig

Pastor Mark Biltz of El Shaddai Ministries in Puyallup, Washington click here has been sharing with us some remarkable discoveries on the blood-red moon and Jewish feast connections in the past three months. He now has some new discoveries.

I have known Mark for four years and have spoken at his church twice in the Tacoma, Washington, area. He has been an avid student and teacher of the Jewish Feasts and their awe-inspiring connections to the Lord's earthly events.

Mark said he had found my blood-red moon work interesting and began looking into possible connection to past and future Jewish Feasts at which time he found very significant connections.

I have provided blood-red moon information, and have provided information on the coming total solar eclipses of 2008, 2009 and 2010—which all fall on the 1st of Av.

Seven back-to-back, blood-red moons have fallen on the first day of Passover and Sukkot, with the eighth time coming in 2014 and 2015

Mark found that we have had blood-red moons on the first day of Passover and the first day of Sukkot on back-to-back years seven times since 1 A.D. Three of these occurrences were connected to 1492 (the Spanish Inquisition), 1948 (statehood for Israel and the War of Independence), and 1967 (the Six-Day War) — some of the most significant days in Jewish history.

The others were in 162/163 A.D., 795/796 A.D., 842/843 A.D. and 860/861 A.D. We don’t have any historical connections for these years at this time, but we do know of significant Jewish persecution during the eighth and ninth centuries.

In all eight examples, the eclipses have fallen or will fall on the first day of Passover and Sukkot.

The eighth occurrence of back-to-back, blood-red moons will be in 2014–2015.

So what does the period of time from 2013 to 2015 portend for Israel and the world?

We will closely watch the peace efforts in Israel in 2008 to see if a peace deal is signed — knowing that 2015 would be seven years later. I am not date-setting, and I certainly won’t speculate, but the lineup of occurrences is very intriguing.

Solar eclipses of 2008, 2009 and 2010 — and their connection to the month of Av

Additionally, Mark has discovered through NASA that there will be three annual solar eclipses on the 1st of Av, beginning this year and running through 2010. We know that the month of Av — and especially the 9th of Av — has been the most trying period throughout history for the Jewish people.

Total solar eclipses have been a bad omen for the nations, while blood-red moons have been a bad omen for the Jewish people and Israel.


Lunar eclipses — click here.

Solar eclipses — click here.

Jewish Feast dates: 1998 to 2017 click here.

Month of Av information — click here.


Three sets of blood-red moons that corresponded to significant events:

The 1492 Spanish Inquisition, the 1948 War of Independence and the 1967 Six-Day War had back-to-back, blood-red moons occur on the first day of Passover and Sukkot the following two years or beginning the same year of the 1967 Six-Day War for two years.

The Spanish Inquisition — 1492

* Passover, April 2, 1493
* Sukkoth, Sept. 25, 1493
* Passover, March 22, 1494
* Sukkoth, Sept. 15, 1494

The War of Independence — 1948

* Passover, April 13, 1949
* Sukkoth, Oct. 7, 1949
* Passover, April 2, 1950
* Sukkoth, Sept. 26, 1950

The Six-Day War — 1967

* First Day of Passover, April 24, 1967
* First Day of Sukkoth, Oct. 18, 1967
* First Day of Passover. April 13, 1968
* First Day of Sukkoth, Oct. 6, 1968

What will occur in the 2013–2015 time period?

* First Day of Passover, April 15, 2014
* First Day of Sukkoth, Oct. 8, 2014
* First Day of Passover, April 4, 2015
* First Day of Sukkoth, Sept. 28, 2015

Fall Feasts in 2015

* Rosh Hashanah (The Feast of Trumpets), Sept. 14
* Yom Kippur (The Day of Atonement), Sept. 23
* Sukkoth (The Feast of Tabernacles), Sept. 28

This year's blood-red moon

During this year's Feb. 21 "blood-red" moon, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak and IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi spoke of preparation for war with Hezbollah and Hamas, and both those terror organizations leaders were bold in their rhetoric against Israel in this time of great tension.

The Temple Mount and blood-red moons

Previously, I wrote about the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and the two connections to peace talks and the blood-red moons of July 16, 2000, and Aug. 28, 2007.

The link to that article: click here.

The Blood-Red Moon, the Temple Mount and the Bible

Other interesting facts

* Passover is the first annual feast
* Sukkoth is the seventh and final annual feast
* Av is a month of mourning for the Jews
* The 17th of Tammuz to the 9th of Av is a 21-day period of mourning for the Jewish people (more info below)
* The next seven year cycle begins on Rosh Hashanah on Sept. 30, 2008, and ends on Rosh Hashanah on Sept. 13-14, 2015
* The sabbatical year in the seven-year cycle begins on Rosh Hashanah on Sept. 25, 2014, and ends on Rosh Hashanah on September 13-14, 2015 — the day of a partial solar eclipse

2000-year history of blood-red moons' connection to Passover and Sukkot

Mark says that during this century, the only string of four consecutive blood moons that coincide with God's holy days of Passover in the spring and the autumn's Feast of Tabernacles (also called Sukkoth) occur in 2014 and 2015 on today's Gregorian calendar.

He noticed a pattern:

There were no astronomical back-to-back blood-red moon events in the 1800s, the 1700s or the 1600s. In the 1500s, there were six, but none of those fell on Passover and Sukkoth. The 2014/2015 events will be the last this century.

Total solar eclipses and the month of Av

On the first of Av in 2008, 2009 and 2010, there will be total solar eclipses.

NASA: Total solar eclipses occur on these dates:

* Aug. 1, 2008 (1st of Av)
* July 22, 2009 (1st of Av)
* July 11, 2010 (1st of Av)

The 1st of Av falls on these dates in 2008, 2009 and 2010:

* Aug. 1, 2008 (5768)
* July 21, 2009 (5769)
* July 11, 2010 (5770)

NOTE: The first of Av begins at sundown and ends at sundown the following day.

The Month of Av Disaster and Consolation

by Rebbetzin Tzipporah Heller

The Month of Av Disaster and Consolation - click here.

By every measure the Jewish month of Av is tragically unique, one in which the worst disasters in our history took place.

The 15th of Av was a time of joy. In ancient times it was a day in which marriages were arranged and new beginnings celebrated. It was a time in which we began again, expressing not just who we don't want to be but who we can be.

Jewish history: Aaron died on 1st of Av (

Aaron died on the first day of Av (in the year 2447). He was 122 years old when he died, being three years older than Moses.

The entire people of Israel, both men and women, mourned the death of Aaron for 30 days. Everybody knew Aaron as a great lover of peace, who brought love and harmony among people and in many a home.

17 Tammuz to 9 Av — 21 days of mourning

The 21 days from 17 Tammuz to 9 Av, and the fast days of 17 Tammuz and 9 Av, are times of morning for the Jewish people.

The fast of the 17th of Tammuz, the day of the breaching of the walls of Jerusalem, marks the beginning of the "Three Weeks." The fast of the 9th of Av commemorates the day of the actual destruction by fire of the Holy Temple and is the last day of the Three Weeks. The Three Weeks is a period of mourning over these destructions.

Tisha B'Av:

Crash Course in Jewish History Part 35 - Destruction of the Temple - click here.

The 9th of Av 2008–2015

Tisha b'Av will occur on the following days on the Gregorian calendar:

* Sunset Aug. 9 - sundown Aug. 10, 2008
* Sunset July 29 – sundown July 30, 2009
* Sunset July 19 - sundown July 20, 2010
* Sunset Aug. 8 - sundown Aug. 9, 2011
* Sunset July 28 - sundown July 29, 2012
* Sunset July 15 – sundown July 16, 2013
* Sunset Aug. 4 - sundown Aug. 5, 2014
* Sunset July 25 – sundown July 26, 2015

Chart of 2014-2015: four blood-red moons and two solar eclipses

Mark prepared the following chart that shows the years 2014 to 2015.

Mark says, "You have the religious year beginning with the total solar eclipse on Adar 29/Nisan 1 (March 20, 2015); two weeks later, a total lunar eclipse on Passover (April 4, 2015); then the civil year beginning with the solar eclipse; followed two weeks later by another total blood-red moon on the Feast of Succoth — all in 2015."


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Reply # 1 - ReplyTo ID: 54146

DUST Reply

Posted By: Danielle -
Date: 5/17/2008 1:35:49 AM
Assuming that these signs are correctly pointing to something signifigant toward Israel (Which I believe they are) - this is absolutely fascinating and should have us all feeling a deep joy in our hearts.

My one question, however is that I cannot figure out what specifically God is saying. I am familiar with each of the past events that happened when the last blood moons and solar eclipses fell in this pattern on Jewish Holy Days, and there are all sorts of different elements to those events that could be analyized, but is He signalling jews being re-gatherered? Or is He signalling His hand on their success? Or maybe each new milestone in the countdown to the New Jerusalem, etc..?

I wish I could figure it out, because I really want to know that the time is at hand for us to leave!

Post 2:

Nearing Midnight
Posted By: Vic
5/12/2008 8:00:50 PM

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Member Comments:

Nearing Midnight Commentary
Todd & Terry

May 12

Yet Another Deadly Tropical Storm Strikes

Much of southwestern Myanmar is in ruins after a powerful cyclone smashed into the impoverished nation with huge waves, severe winds and torrential rains. Cyclone Nargis may have killed more than 100,000 people.

Most of the deaths came when a wall of water pushed as much as 25 miles inland. In the city of Bogalay, 95 percent of homes are thought to have been destroyed by 20-foot waves.

So far, little international aid is reaching the people in need. Myanmar is controlled by a secretive junta, led by the ruthless General Than Shwe, and he is paranoid of what an influx of foreigners might have on his political control of the country.

The suffering by the people of Myanmar may have just begun. The nation's rice- growing heartland has been devastated by the cyclone, posing worries of long- term food shortages. The Rome-based U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization estimates that five states hit hardest by Saturday's cyclone produce 65 percent of the Southeast Asian country's rice. The region also is home to 80 percent of its aquaculture, 50 percent of its poultry and 40 percent of its pork production.

In the past four years, I have reported several times about the incredible spike in tropical storm activity. Time and time again records have been shattered.

Global warming can't be an explanation for the upsurge we are seeing today. Cyclone Nargis had all the makings of a perfect storm. Packing winds upwards of 120 mph, the cyclone became one of Asia's deadliest storms by suddenly going from Category 1 to Category 3 and hitting land at one of the lowest points in Myanmar.

The storms seem to be intelligently guided to inflict maxim damage. If they were random, the law of averages would cause most to strike uninhabited areas or follow paths that lead to the open ocean.

Even seasoned weathermen can see how unusual these storms have been. "When we saw the storm track of Cyclone Nargis, I said, 'Uh oh, this is not going to be good,'" said Mark Lander, a meteorology professor at the University of Guam. "It would create a big storm surge. It was like Katrina going into New Orleans."

To give you folks a perspective of the intensity and frequency of tropical systems, I've compiled a list of storms that stand out in the headlines:

2004 - Japan was hit by a record number of typhoons.
2004 - Florida was hit by a record number of hurricanes.
2004 - Cyclone Catarina - 1st South Atlantic cyclone to reach a hurricane strength

2005 - Katrina was the most costly hurricane in history.
2005 - Rita was the most powerful Atlantic storm by barometric pressure.
2005 - Atlantic hurricane watchers record 27 storms, the most ever in a season.

2006 - Larry was the most powerful tropical system to hit Australia in 31 years.
2006 - Monica topped Larry as the most intense cyclone ever to impact Australia.
2006 - Typhoon Saomai was the most powerful storm to hit Communist China.
2006 - Ioke - first recorded Category 5 hurricane to develop in the central Pacific

2007 - Cyclone Gonu - strongest tropical cyclone on record in the Arabian Sea.
2007 - The first time two Category 5 Atlantic storms made landfall in one season.
2007 - The first time an Atlantic and Pacific hurricane hit on the same day.
2007 - Humberto - fastest storm ever to go from depression to full-scale hurricane
2007 - Sidr - Second-strongest storm to hit Bangladesh since records

2008 - Cyclone Nargis struck Myanmar, killing an estimated 100,000 people.

Even the most skeptical person must realize by now that something unusual is happening. There is no way one can say these are just common events. The trend is too pronounced and beyond anything experienced in the 400 years that men have tracked topical systems.

I believe prophecy is the logical reason for the number of record tropical storms. God is using them to sound the warning cry. The Bible predicts that the tribulation hour will be preceded by an increase in natural disasters.

It seems clear to me that the Lord is using tropical storms to get mankind's attention. Anyone who understands anything about exponential curves knows that they cannot continue indefinitely. The massive surge of the global activity in the past few years would seem to suggest that we are at the tail end of the curve.

"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth" (Luke 21:25-26).

-- Todd


Israel’s Birthday and World Problems Converge

Modern Israel’s 60th birthday takes place Wednesday, May 14 this week. The Jewish state, however, seems to have few celebrants outside of the Jewish community in Israel and the other places Jews cluster around the world. International problems, at the same time, grow considerably--especially problems in production and distribution of food supplies that are, according to experts, dwindling.

The following excerpts capture the predecessor celebration leading to modern Israel’s actual 60th birthday celebration. The celebratory mood harbors in its shadows, however, worries about the nation’s future.

JERUSALEM - Israel staged its 60th birthday bash with fireworks, air force flyovers and a great sense of pride Thursday, but also with uncertainty about its future and doubts about prospects for peace with the Palestinians…Israel at 60 is a paradox of exuberance and despair - a country enduring near daily rocket attacks from militants while producing scientists who have pioneered Wi-Fi and instant messaging. Six decades after rising from the ashes of the Holocaust, the Jewish state is still plagued by threats from abroad and an identity crisis at home.

A large part of the angst the Jewish citizens of Israel face is engendered by media bias against its perceived illegal occupation of the tiny portion of the “holy land.” Note the tone and tenor of the writer’s following report: "Its 41-year occupation of Palestinian territories has invited international condemnation. Yet Israel is a thriving democracy that has provided a haven for the world's Jews.”

Reports on Israel by secular media are almost always tinged with accusation of that nation being there illegally and unwanted. While Israel’s early birthday celebration was going on, the “Palestinians” and the international press jumped on the opportunity to point out the Jewish state’s evil actions in usurping the hapless Arabs’ land. The report continues:

Peace talks have produced no tangible results. Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad warned Thursday that "the peace process is facing difficulties, when compared with its declared goals." President Bush wants to see a peace deal by the end of the year, but the target date appears increasingly unrealistic…In the West Bank and Gaza, Palestinians staged events to remind the world that Israel's creation has been their "nakba," or catastrophe.

Hundreds of thousands were uprooted during the 1948 war over Israel's creation, and some 4.5 million Palestinian refugees and their descendants are scattered across the region today (Source for this excerpt and those above: "Israel celebrates its 60th with pride, but also uncertainty," Steven Gutkin, Associated Press Writer, 5/8/08;

Barely controlled global anger against the modern incarnation of God’s chosen nation is evidenced through the global community. So, too, are the many signals of God’s displeasure about treatment of the Jewish people. The signals are similar to those that Bible writers reported throughout millennia past, when nations assaulted ancient Israel.

Food supply seemed to always affect people who dealt harshly with God’s chosen. Remember the great famine in Egypt that Joseph, a Jew, had to deal with, through his God’s intervention? And recall the Egyptian situations of Moses' day, when even the water was undrinkable, when Pharaoh wouldn’t let the Israelites leave Egypt. Food supply became more critical, the harsher the treatment became. We can’t help noticing similarities between then and now, if we truly look at the facts.

Thursday May 9, Fox News reported that the dictator of Burma was refusing to allow American food supplies into that cyclone-ravaged country, where more than 100,000 are thought to have died. The United Nations could only issue the asinine statement that they couldn’t understand why the Burma government –a communist state, by the way--wouldn’t allow the foodstuffs into the hurting country. Burma’s spokesperson said only that they didn’t want to open their people or nation up to American influence. Imagine the uproar if George W. Bush had made a comparable statement keeping the U.N. out of America. Of course, the point is moot, as the U.N. takes from America, not contributes to the nation.

America’s own food supplies are affected due to the oil problems of the Middle East, while President Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice try to pressure Israel into going along with dividing Jerusalem for the sake of peace in the region. Our government continues to pursue keeping the ever more expensive oil, thus gasoline flowing by placating Israel’s neighbors, even though it is the Islamic Israel-haters who keep things stirred, and will not let peace ever come to the region. Satan wants Israel removed from existence, period. Lucifer is the unseen force that deludes the human diplomats, as well as the beastly Islamic fanatics who want to remove Israel as a burdensome stone that is, they evidently believe, the major obstacle to peace.

Consider how the price of petroleum has forced farmers to turn to selling grains to produce hybrid fuels. This action has created shortages, thus higher and higher prices in food staples, even in things like breakfast cereals. The increasing pinch is felt not only in the U.S., but also by the whole world.

Those who deal in ways detrimental to Israel or with Jerusalem, God says, touch the apple of His eye. There is always a violent reaction when one’s eye is poked. Israel is linked directly to their God, whether they prefer the tether or not. This doesn’t mean that individual Jews are under His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob if they are in rebellion against Him. But, Israel as a race, as a nation, are forever under His protection in the sense He will absolutely preserve all who turn to Him in repentance. All such individuals within God’s chosen nation during this present age will be saved. Those during the tribulation–the remnant—will be lifted out of the deadliest holocaust ever. Saved Jews who are raptured will be part of the Church–Christ’s bride--for eternity. Those preserved (the remnant) through the tribulation will inherit the millennial earth, and will be the chief nation occupying the entirety of the land God gave them.

They will bless the whole world with their productivity. There will be no shortage of life-sustaining food. Watch for the increasing pressure from Almighty God as more pressure is brought to bear on His people of destiny.


Post 3:

Can we know the season?
Posted By: Songbird of Jesus
5/11/2008 6:25:22 AM

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Member Comments:
How remarkable.

Just yesterday, I was listening to a Zola Levitt teaching called, "Holy Days" on my mp3 at work, when I heard him say that Christ will return to herald in His millenial reign upon the Feast of Tabernacles. So, I start to ponder on if we can know the season of the rapture. Then today, I see what Joe has posted in his "So Simple" thread, which I will review at work today.

Here's what I am getting at:

Jesus said we cannot know the day nor hour, but we can know the season, right?
Not at all into date-setting myself, but if Jesus meant a literal season beyond knowing the general era discernable from the signs He gave us, then maybe this is worth looking at a bit closer.

If memory serves me correctly, the Feast of Tabernacles occurs in the fall.

The 70th week (according to the prophet Daniel) is 7 years long, calculated on the old Hebrew calendar in which there are 30 days per month, and 360 days per year, giving us an exact timeline to the duration of the 70th week at precisely 2,520 days. Knowing this, we still cannot know the exact day nor hour, just as Jesus promised, but this does seem to clue us in on knowing the season. (Maybe).

So, if Jesus returns WITH His saints in the very end on this feast in the fall, and if we subtract 2,520 days from the fall of any futuristic year, then what season would we come to counting backwards?

Note, we really have no need to take into account our modern-day calendar, as we are relying purely on the Hebrew calendar given to us in Scripture, relative to number of days, not months or years. I would safely assume that the duration of a day today is exactly the same as in days past dating clear back to Adam.

If we subtract the 2,520 days from the fall of any year hence forth, then we would arrive somewhere at late summer, early fall, if my immediate mental calculations serve me correctly. (Getting ready for work just now, so I will narrow this down more accurately when time permits). Take note that if comparing this to our modern calendar, there will be an additional 35 to 37 days added to the calculation, dependent on whether one or two leap days occur within the 7 year era of the 70th week, whenever it may begin.

We cannot know the date of the rapture, but given this context, maybe we can know the season in which the 70th week will begin.

Which is certainly not in violation of the rules of imminency that I can see. The rapture itself can happen anytime before this point, albeit days, months, or years, or a split second before the European ink spills out onto Israeli paper in confirming the treaty.

Any thoughts?

Reply # 1 - ReplyTo ID: 53985

DUST Reply

Posted By: DavidMooney -
Date: 5/11/2008 7:55:42 AM
Hello Songbird,

I have often wondered when Jesus said no man knows the HOUR or the DAY that he comes, does that mean it is possible for one to know the week, month, or season?

I think you asked a good question. When I attended Church in the 70's and 80's I often pointed this out to other Christians and they claimed they had never thought of that before.

Take care,
David Mooney

Reply # 2 - ReplyTo ID: 53990

DUST Reply

Posted By: Joe -
Date: 5/11/2008 1:07:22 PM
Hey Songbird,
This is the reason I posted "So Simple". I do believe we can know the season. The Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts that time is short, so make it count. I'm not a supporter of date setters, and I was afraid the date setter would get us off focus of the season. If Christians didn't feel this to be the season, there be no desire to date setting debates. We all feel it Songbird, Jesus is saying to our hearts, I'm coming for you very soon, so make the time left count for eternity. Make it count.......

Reply # 3 - ReplyTo ID: 53995

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Posted By: Songbird of Jesus -
Date: 5/11/2008 7:38:34 PM
A compelling article. One of the better ones I have seen in awhile. (Haven't read Blood Moon just yet). Seems to align somewhat with my deduction that the trib may start in the (any) fall season.

A few things in this article really rubbed me the wrong way, however.

1. To call those who question this man's views mocker, scoffers, Doubting Thomases, and unScriptural? Personally, I cannot get Matthew 25:13 out of my head where Jesus promises we shall not know the day nor hour. It seems this violates God's Word in of itself. And while the many alignments noted are interesting, if not breathtaking, I still cannot conveniently overlook this verse in fear of being seen as a scoffing doubter to this man. My scoffing comes from past experience of date-setters who fail and then continue onward with another calculation. I think his accusation is rather bold and arrogant, since it is largely failing date-setters who give great increase to the scoffers, mockers, and Doubting Thomases which are too many as it is.

2. He mentions 5 Doves, in which I again have had some experience with. These perpetually make vain and failing attempts at date-setting. I once called upon the owner of that community about this via private e-mail (some oriental guy from China I think) and he boldly stated to me that the community was mainly created specifically for the purpose of date-setting. Needless to say, I left there marvelling. I also debated with Jim Bramlett who partakes in the assertions there, with no avail.

3. I cannot safely assume that the modern-day depiction of a generation is exactly 40 years.

Nevertheless, I did extract some interesting knowledge about the Feasts.

Neat stuff!

Reply # 4 - ReplyTo ID: 53999

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Posted By: Songbird of Jesus -
Date: 5/11/2008 10:16:37 PM
Don't mean to come as sarcastic towards this guy.

Maybe I am just still a bit grouchy from the 2007 rapture certainties...

Reply # 5 - ReplyTo ID: 54000

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Posted By: MarkJ -
Date: 5/11/2008 10:40:19 PM
Ok, i'll be the odd duck here. I've been listening for years to this person and that person on the date/time/season of the rapture. About 14 years ago, our very knowledgable bible study lady had all her pets put down because she was certain the rapture would happen that year. She did not want them to wonder the streets or die locked up in the house, so she had them put to sleep (killed needlessly) by her vet.

I've gotten excited and waited for this date and that date and heard all the speculation, only to have it not pan out. Personally, I can't handle the ups and downs of this kind of thing. I don't get all excited and jazzed up, I just keep on keeping on, knowing one day it will happen and all this worldly crap will be over.

Granted, i'm not the most optimistic person. To be honest, I rarely ask for much because I don't like being let down. Been there way too many times. If I do ask, it's only ONCE! Was raised with "you ask again, and you'll wish you hadn't". I do pray, but not much for myself. I pray for others but also know that their will figures in too.

Like I learned long ago, if you lower your expectations far enough, you'll never be dissappointed again. Yes I have faith, yes I have some hope. I HAVE to believe that my crappy life is not all there is. If this is all there is, i've been a bigger fool than most and should have called it quits years ago.

Reply # 6 - ReplyTo ID: 54005

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Posted By: Linda -
Date: 5/12/2008 8:26:01 AM
Hey Jim,
Yes I think and believe we can know the general season of Christs' return...although not the Hour nor Day.

Jesus gave "clues" to His return for both the Rapture and the 2nd Coming, and we are admonished to always be on "Watch" for those things coming to past. Sometimes, we may not know that they have come to past, until they actually have.

God works through His Church via the Holy Spirit, and there is no way He would leave us "clueless" to those things about to come upon this age.

We are all Watchmen and are to help proclaim the Gospel to all to ready others for His return...we can only do this if we know that what we are talking about is true and sure!

God gives us His Spirit not only as a comforter, but as an inner voice that lets us know what is coming. I believe that the closer the "Season" comes, the stronger that Spirit will quicken us.

We all feel the urgency of the times, it is what we do with the time we have left that will follow us into eternity.

Reply # 7 - ReplyTo ID: 54009

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Posted By: PaulFlannigan -
Date: 5/12/2008 12:08:14 PM
Songbird, I had exactly the same feeling as you. Red flags go WAY UP anytime someone tries to condemn you just for questioning them. I'm no biblical scholar, but doesn't even God ask us to test Him?

MarkJ, my thoughts seem right in line with yours too.

Glad I'm not alone here.

And also, thanks to Joe for posting this and giving us all a chance to tussle with it.

Reply # 8 - ReplyTo ID: 54010

DUST Edit Reply

Posted By: MarkPhillips -
Date: 5/12/2008 2:57:03 PM
The Most Miss Understood...Can We Know Matt 24:36

Brethren.....It is the dead church that is in the dark about the appointed time
of our Lord's return and the seasons there of. He comes as a thief in the night to those
believing they don't need to WATCH AND WHO ARE IN THE DARK ABOUT these
matters of the Lord's return.

I honestly do not think Jesus gets all upset about anyone trying to speculate when He will return anymore than a betrothed man will get upset when his bride speculates when he will come to elope with her

Nevertheless, I do know that certain men do get extremely excited when someone speculates about when Jesus will return. If that date projection comes and goes they like to call them false prophets or false teachers. Sometimes the reason they do is because they themselves once put too much stock in someones speculation and sold the farm or they say they know someone who did. Now they have a vendetta against all watchmen because someone they knew believed the teachings of a cult.

Why tell believers to look up when you see the signs if there is nothing to see (Lk 21:28)? Hebrews tells us not to forsake the assembling together and so much more as you see the day approaching (Heb 10:25). If we cannot see the day approaching, what is the point of this passage saying that we can? Elijah knew when the Lord was coming to take him to Heaven and also told Elisha?

Jesus said to the Church at Sardis "therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Rev 3:3). Conversely then, the passage implies that there will be those that are watching and that they would know when Jesus was coming. Jesus confirms this with His message to the church at Philadelphia. Jesus said, He will delivered them from the trial that comes on everyone on the earth because they were faithful and watching (Rev 3:10).

There is a huge difference between setting a firm date and talking about the likely season of the second coming of Jesus Christ. So please understand that from the scriptures a reasonable case can be built that the true Church will indeed know the general timing of the second coming of Jesus. So in spite of the passages that say no one knows the exact day or hour and that the disciples living in Jesus' time would not be told when the Jewish Kingdom would be restored, I believe it would be wrong to say that the Church will be in darkness about the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Can We Know?

by Jim Bramlett

It is mind-boggling to think that our generation alone is uniquely standing on the precipice of time and where no generation has ever stood. We are living in the days spoken of by the ancient prophets.

These prophets spoke of the Israelites being gathered back into their own land, in passages such as Ezekiel 37:21, “This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.”

This began in 1948. The “dry bones” of Ezekiel 37 have come alive. Then, in June 1967, in the miraculous Six-Day War, Israel took back Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, also prophesied.

And as also prophesied, we are seeing the world turn against Israel. “On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations” (Zechariah 12:3). The catalyst for this is oil, or petro-dollars, causing the world to sell out tiny, democratic Israel to despotic Muslim nations for purposes of greed.

These signs are historically unprecedented. Only this generation has seen them. But there are many other biblical signs, such as: increased violence worldwide (as in the days of Noah), increased apostasy, increased cults and false religions and false prophets, increased natural disasters such as frequency of earthquakes, and more.

For these and many other reasons, is it any wonder that millions believe the return of Christ is so near? Polls show that even non-believers think the world is at such a point. This is the most exciting time in all history to be alive!

But when is He coming?

Just the question -- when? -- causes some Christians to cringe, protest, or even scoff! They quickly point out that Jesus said, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36 KJV).

Some believers criticize other believers who are seeking God’s clues, either from the Scriptures or by personal revelation. It is interesting that it was apparently by personal revelation, not Scripture, that many people knew the exact day of Elijah's rapture (2 Kings 2)! Are there types in the Old Testament? Do God’s principles repeat themselves?

Some claim we should focus only on the Great Commission and evangelism and not be concerned when the Lord will return. However, the Bible repeatedly tells us to “watch” for the signs, so not doing so would be disobedient. Also, those who are watching and expecting Jesus’ soon return are probably the most zealous group of witnesses for the gospel among all Christians.

The doubters may mention Paul's words that the day of the Lord will come like "a thief in the night" (1 Thessalonians 5:2). But many believers have so misunderstood these verses that they are oblivious to the times, not watching for the Lord as He commanded, and are often absorbed by the cares of this world and their own agendas.

As to Matthew 24:36, some scholars point out that Jesus' words here are in the present tense, addressed to His hearers at the time, and not to those alive at the end of the age when Daniel's vision would be unsealed (Daniel 12:9). This would be similar to Matthew 16:20: "Then he warned His disciples not to tell anyone that He was the Christ." As evidence, many other Scriptures reveal to us that God will reveal at least the approximately time. (Even if the "day and hour" restriction is literally valid today, it may be because the Earth is in 24 time zones and always in two different days.)

Jesus also said, “but my Father only” knows, which pins the statement to His hearers at the time, when Jesus was still on the earth, because surely there are now no secrets in the Trinity between the Father and the glorified Son, who are truly One. Also, in context, He seems to be speaking of heaven and earth passing away (v. 35), not other end-time events. In addition, Jesus said, “If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee” (Revelation 3:3). He is obviously saying that to the one who watches, He will not come as a thief and that person will know the hour! (Hour -- Greek hora -- Strong’s 5610; various meanings, including, “any definite time, point of time, moment.”

God’s Promises of Revelation

It is clear that Jesus will not come as a "thief in the night" for watchful believers, because in the very same passage, verse 4, Paul tells us, "But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief." If we are trusting in Christ and looking for His coming, Paul said that even the very day does not have to surprise us!

Also, Jesus exhorted, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief" (Revelation 3:3, KJV), obviously saying He will come as a thief only to those not watching! It is obvious that for those watching, He will NOT come as a thief.

Jesus rebuked those who did not understand the signs of the times in His day: "O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky, but can ye not discern the signs of the times" (Matthew 16:3).

Of the end of the age, Jesus said, "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh"(Luke 21:28). He said we would know when it is near!

God said, "Surely the sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing it to His servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7, NIV). God said "nothing," and He did not exclude Christ's return. I take Him at His word.

God not only knows the end from the beginning, He tells us that He makes it known! "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come." (Isaiah 46:10). He has already made it known! I personally believe it has been hidden in His Word all along, to be unlocked in His timing. There is nothing wrong with seeking! No doubt, it pleases God.

God said, "I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee" (Isaiah 48:5, KJV).

Jesus said the Holy Spirit "will teach you all things" (John 14:26). He said "all things." Did Jesus make a mistake, forgetting to exclude when He will return? I don't think so.

Friends confide in one another. Abraham was called God’s “friend” (Isaiah 41:8; James 2:23). “And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do” (Genesis 18:17). Now, because of Jesus’ atonement, we are called friends of God: “I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends” (Jesus, John 15:15). The Bible also says that Jesus was crucified so that the blessing of Abraham, part of which was friendship with God, would come upon the Gentiles -- us (Galatians 3:14).

Ecclesiastes 1:9 says “What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun” (NIV). Many Bible students believe that ancient events and dating in the Bible are shadows and clues that foretell the coming of the Lord, even the timing. An example is the six days of creation, seen as 6,000 years of man’s dominion over the earth, before the return of the Lord and the seventh, or Sabbath Millennium of peace, with Christ ruling in Jerusalem. According to scholars, we are now at the end of 6,000 years since Adam

There are other such passages. God clearly promised that we would know at least approximately when Christ will return, and even "the day" will not surprise us, as the Holy Spirit reveals through Paul!

Precdence for God revealing specific timing

In addition, there is ample precedent for God revealing specific times in advance.

He gave Noah advance notice of when the flood would be (Genesis 6,7).

He told Abraham how long the Israelites would be in Egypt (Genesis 15:13).

As mentioned, He revealed to many the very day of Elijah's rapture (2 Kings 2).

He told Jeremiah how long the Babylonian exile would be (Jeremiah 29:10).

He told Daniel exactly when Messiah would come the first time (Daniel 9:25-26).

Some, including the brilliant Sir Isaac Newton, believe this same passage holds the key to the timing of His return.

There is evidence that the Bible reveals the exact number of years of "the times of the Gentiles" and the exact span of time to Israel's rebirth in 1948 and the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967.

Obviously, leaving us clueless now would violate God's own established pattern as revealed in His Word!

Also obviously, we are not left clueless. There are many signs. Let us remain watchful and ready, and be found doing the Master’s work.

Post 4:

So Simple!
Posted By: Joe
5/10/2008 3:46:04 PM

Reverse Reply

Member Comments:
Dear O.L. family, this is going to stir some action. But what if it is God's 11:59 warning? I personally don't like date setters, but one day someone just might be right. I'm not endorsing this guy, I've never heard of him before I read this piece. Let's be civil when discussing this, for the sake of babes in our mist.

So Simple!…..

By Pastor F. M. Riley

“But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

I Thessalonians 5:4


When is the resurrection and rapture of New Testament believers going to occur? This is the question that God’s people [true believers] have been asking ever since the Lord ascended back to the Father some 2,000 years ago. But since the 40th year of the modern existence of Israel as a nation [1988], this question has become one of paramount importance to God’s people. In these past 20 years this question has been discussed and debated from every conceivable viewpoint.

Folks, the answer to this question, and all other questions dealing with spiritual truth, are to be found only in the inspired Word of God, Amos 3:7. My opinion, idea, or theory, or that of “Bro. Bigshot,” or “Dr. Know It All,” doesn’t amount to the proverbial “hill of beans” when it comes to spiritual truth. Almighty God has spoken to His people through His Word, and that settles the matter. The answer to spiritual questions are found in God’s spiritual book; the Divinely Inspired Word of God. Period!

In this study I want to share with God’s people a revelation from the Scriptures that the Lord has shown me about the time of His coming, trusting that the Lord will use this study to encourage the hearts and minds of every reader who has “seeing eyes and hearing ears,” Matthew 13:16.

The Background

Nearly two years ago the Lord showed me in His Word that His return to resurrect and rapture His New Testament saints to glory would occur in 2008. I have written several Bible studies setting forth the Scriptural reasons why 2008 is the year of the Lord’s return to resurrect and rapture New Testament believers to glory, giving book, chapter, and verse, for every point made. These studies are available to any reader who will write and request them.

Folks, I haven’t been looking for an actual “day” for the Lord’s return for over ten years. I dropped out of that search years ago because of all the conflicting dates that have been set by so many, and all the controversy that has accompanied such searching. Some of the controversy between “brethren” has been shameful, and not at all Christ honoring. I have been perfectly content to know the year the Lord is coming. I haven’t felt any need whatsoever to know the “date.” Throughout this year I have just been patiently waiting on Him, Hebrews 10:35-37, for I have absolute assurance that the Lord is coming for His people in 2008.

My Visitation

But it is now obvious to me that the Lord had other plans for me. This past Saturday

evening, April 26th, I suddenly had a strong compulsion to once again examine the Jewish Holy Days set forth in Leviticus 23. As I read over that chapter again, a simple truth that I had overlooked during all these years of Bible study just jumped off the page at me. I now know that my compulsion came from the Lord and that He wanted me to see this truth, for I certainly wasn’t looking for it. Saturday evening, April 26th, the Lord showed me when He is coming this year to resurrect and rapture His New Testament saints to glory.

When the Lord revealed this truth to me, I was shaken and astounded. It is so simple and so plain in God’s Word that I wondered how I could have missed it all these years? I literally shook and trembled and cried and praised the Lord! The presence of the Lord was in the room with me so strongly that I trembled at His presence. I knew that I had experienced a “visitation” from the Lord, and that He had given to me a truth that He wanted me to know, and that He had given it to me at the exact time He wanted me to know it.

What an awesome God we serve. Praise the Lord! Hallelujah!

But along with this revelation came a deep burden also, for I know that the Lord gave me this truth to be shared with His people. I also know that many of those who read this will only mock and ridicule and find fault with it. Folks, I am sick to my stomach of the mockers and scoffers today [Laodiceans] who piously claim to be “Christians,” yet who won’t even lift a finger to seriously study the prophecies of God’s Word. Nevertheless, this truth must be shared with God’s people, and put forth as a final warning to the lost.

On a Jewish Festival

I first want to take my readers to Habakkuk 2:2-4. The context of this passage is clearly dealing with the coming of the Lord. Read it for yourself and compare the transliteration of the very same passage in Hebrews 10:35-39, noticing especially verses 37-38.

For the enlightenment and benefit of our readers, a literal word for word rendering of Habakkuk 2:2-3 follows exactly as it is worded in the Hebrew text of the Bible,

2 And answered me Jehovah and said, Write the vision, and engrave it on the tablets, so that he may run who is reading it.

3 For still the vision is for the appointed festival, but it pants to the end, and does

not lie. Though it hesitates, wait for it; for surely it will come; it will not tarry.

Please compare this literal rendering with the wording recorded in the King James Bible. Notice the words “appointed time” in the KJV. These words are translated from the Hebrew word, “mowadah.” This Hebrew word literally means “appointed festival.” See Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, page 457, Strong’s No. 4150.

For any reader willing to deal honestly with God’s Word, this should settle the question of whether or not the Lord is coming on a Jewish Holy Day. This verse explicitly states that the vision of the Lord’s coming is to be fulfilled on “the appointed festival.” In view of this explicit statement, we need not expect the Lord to come at any other time than on a Jewish Festival, for the Lord never violates His own Word.

Notice also that this verse explicitly states that the vision “does not lie.” In other words, at the time when the vision “speaks” to God’s people again, it will be fulfilled by the coming of the Lord without fail on the “appointed festival.” The vision will “not lie.” Folks, the vision is speaking again. The Lord has now revealed when He is coming for His people, and His coming will occur on the “appointed festival” without fail. Glory to God! Praise the Lord!

I want to point out that all of the Jewish Holy Days given to Israel are prophetic. Who says so? The inspired Word of God says so! In Colossians 2:16-17 the Scripture explicitly states, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.” This passage in God’s Word explicitly states that the holy days of the Jews are prophetic. No true believer then should argue the point. It is settled by the inspired Word of God. Period!

But since this passage in Habakkuk 2:3 explicitly states that the vision will be fulfilled on the “appointed festival,” then the question arises, “What Jewish Festival?”

The Three Festivals

Folks, while there were seven Jewish Holy Days given to Israel by the Lord in Leviticus 23, only three of them were “festivals.” This is clearly stated in Exodus 23:14-17, 34:23, Deuteronomy 16:16, and 2 Chronicles 8:13, where all three of the festivals are explicitly named. These three mandatory festivals were “the feast of unleavened bread,” which began the day following Passover [Exodus 12:1-27; Leviticus 23:5-14…8 days], “the feast of harvest” [or weeks], which is known today as Pentecost [Leviticus 23:15-21…1 day], and “the feast of ingathering,” which is also called the Feast of Tabernacles [Leviticus 23:34-43…8 days]. It is then on one of these three mandatory Jewish festivals that the Lord Jesus Christ is coming back to resurrect and rapture His people to glory. But which one?

Only Two

As the Lord moved me last Saturday night to restudy Leviticus 23, I suddenly realized that only two of the three mandatory Jewish Festivals foreshadow the resurrection and rapture of God’s people. Wow! Amazing! This is so simple I have stumbled right over it for years.

The first Jewish Festival having anything to do with the resurrection and rapture of God’s people is “the feast of unleavened bread,” during the course of which a “wave offering” of the “firstfruits” of the barley harvest is presented to the Lord. This feast marks the beginning of the barley harvest in the land of Israel.

The only other Jewish Festival having anything to do with the resurrection and rapture of God’s people is “the feast of harvest” on which a second “wave offering” was presented to the Lord. Today this Jewish Festival is known as “Pentecost.” The Jewish Festival of Pentecost marks the ending of the barley harvest in the land of Israel. Only these two Jewish Festivals foreshadow the resurrection and rapture of God’s people. But don’t take my word for it. Let’s demonstrate this truth from God’s Word.

The Festival of Unleavened Bread

The instructions for observing this festival are given in Exodus 12:14-20 and Leviticus 23:6-14, with specific instructions being given in Leviticus 23:9-14 for the “firstfruits” offering. This observance is also mentioned in several other related passages. What I especially want our readers to notice in the course of this festival is the observance of the “firstfruits” offering.

The “firstfruits” offering was a “sheaf” [omer] of barley, the first grain ripe in Israel in the Spring of the year. There was always some of this grain ripe by Passover. This first ripe barley was gathered in from the field, and the grain was beaten out of the husks until there was an “omer” of barley. The “omer” full of the first ripe barley was then brought to the priest officiating in the Tabernacle [later in the Temple].

The Scriptures tell us that “on the morrow after the sabbath” following Passover, the priest would take this “omer” of barley into the Tabernacle, and standing before the veil which separated the holy place from the “holiest of all,” would lift up the “omer” of barley towards Heaven as high as he could reach, and would “wave the sheaf” [omer] vigorously back and forth before the veil “to be accepted for you, 23:11. The Lord Himself called it a “wave offering” in Leviticus 23:15. Glory to God!

Please dear readers, in this study I am only presenting those facts about the “wave offering” of the “firstfruits” which are necessary to give our readers an understanding of what the offering foreshadowed. You can study all the details for yourself.

The Fulfillment of Firstfruits

If you are a true Bible believer then you know that just as the Israelites sacrificed a lamb on that first Passover [and each Passover thereafter], so 1,517 years later the Lord Jesus Christ, “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world,” John 1:29, was sacrificed on Passover in 30 A.D.

Three days and three nights after Christ was crucified, just as the 17th day of Abib ended and the 18th day began, “on the morrow after the sabbath” following the Passover, the Lord Jesus Christ came forth from the tomb, triumphant over death, hell, and the grave, Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1-6; Luke 24:1-7; John 20. Glory to God! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!

Now here is where the events really get interesting. For on that same first day of the week, “the morrow after the sabbath,” the Scriptures state, “many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many,” Matthew 28:52-53. Folks, these were the “firstfruits” [plural] of the resurrection, which included Christ Himself, 1 Corinthians 15:20, all of which were foreshadowed by the “omer” of barley. Glory to God! Praise the Lord! Hallelujah! But let’s put it all together.

According to John 20:1-18, on that glorious “first day of the week” when Christ arose, Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, “when it was yet dark,” and found the tomb empty. She ran and told Peter and John and they came to the tomb and also found it empty. Peter and John then left the tomb, but Mary remained at the tomb weeping. The Lord then appeared to her, identifying Himself, and saying to her, “Touch Me not; for I am not yet ascended to My Father: but go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God.” It is then obvious that at that specific time on that resurrection morning, the Lord had not yet ascended to the Father.

However, according to Matthew 28:1-10, just a few hours [or a few minutes…??] later the Lord met “Mary Magdalene and the other Mary” as they were going to tell the other disciples what the angel had told them, “And they came and held Him by the feet, and worshiped Him.” Folks, in that interval of time the Lord had ascended into Heaven itself [Hebrews 9:24], where He presented His blood to the Father, and also presented to the Father “the firstfruits of them that slept,” all of which were received and accepted by the Father, and then the Lord returned to earth to meet the two Mary’s. Glory to God!

Folks, it certainly appears that Christ and the “firstfruit” saints were standing before the Father’s throne in Heaven that morning at the very same time that the Jewish priest was standing in the Temple waving the “firstfruits” barley offering before a veil that was standing wide open [Mark 15:38], clearly signifying that the way into Heaven itself was now open for all who will believe, Hebrews 10:19-20. Remember that the Scriptures explicitly state that this offering was “to be accepted for you.” Folks, it is the blood of our risen Christ that makes the truly repentant believer “accepted” by the Heavenly Father, Ephesians 1:3-7. Glory! Praise the Lord! Hallelujah! Glory to God! “Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord.” Psalm 150:6.

Folks, there are two things here I want you to notice. First, it is obvious that the “wave offering” of the “firstfruits” of the “omer” of barley on “the morrow after the sabbath” following Passover clearly foreshadowed the resurrection of Christ and those “firstfruits” saints who came out of their graves after His resurrection. Second, this observance marked the beginning of the barley harvest.

Now let’s look at the other Jewish Festival…..

The Festival of Harvest

This Jewish Festival is known today as “Pentecost.” It is referred to in the Scriptures as “the feast of harvest,” Exodus 23:16, and also as “the feast of weeks,” Exodus 34:22; Deuteronomy 16:10; 16:16; 2 Chronicles 8:13. It is the only other Jewish Festival during the course of the Jewish year where a “wave offering” taken from the barley harvest was presented to the Lord. Didn’t we just see that the “wave offering” of the barley foreshadowed the resurrection and rapture of Christ and the “firstfruits” of God’s people? Then what do you think the second “wave offering” of barley foreshadows? Well..??

The instructions for the observance of Pentecost are recorded in Leviticus 23:15-21. The word “Pentecost” simply means “fifty.” This is because the “wave offering” on Pentecost came fifty days after the “firstfruits” wave offering on “the morrow after the sabbath” following Passover. Both “wave offerings” were regarded as “firstfruits” to the Lord, Leviticus 23:17; 23:20. .

On this “appointed festival” two loaves of barley bread were to be brought “out of your habitations” [homes] to the priest, Leviticus 23:17. The priest would take these two loaves of barley bread into the Tabernacle [or Temple], and standing before the veil would “wave” them before the Lord, just as he had “waved” the “omer” of barley 50 days previously. What does this foreshadow? Let’s see…..

The Waving of the Loaves

These two barley loaves had been baked “with leaven,” Leviticus 23:17. This is the only place in all of God’s Word where the Jewish people were explicitly told to use “leaven.” In God’s Word “leaven” is a type of sin. It never typifies anything but sin in God’s Word, Matthew 13:33; 1 Corinthians 5:6-8. Because leaven typifies sin, the Jews were explicitly forbidden from using “leaven” in all of their offerings to the Lord, except this one. Why this exception?

This exception was made because, just as the “omer” of barley typified the Lord and the “firstfruit” saints, these loaves also typify God’s people. In what way? Folks, true believers are now saints who were once sinners. The only people the Lord saves are sinners. The Lord doesn’t save so-called “good people” [Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23]. He only saves men and women, boys and girls, who realize and confess that they are “dead in trespasses and sins,” Ephesians 2:1; 2:8-9. Then, having believed His Word and repented, the Holy Spirit comes into the repentant believer’s body and takes up His abode, John 14:16-17. And, just as the fire in the Jewish ovens baked the leaven out of those loaves of barley bread, so the fire of God’s Holy Spirit [which was given on Pentecost] bakes the SIN out of the life of the truly repentant believer. Glory! Glory to God! Praise the Lord!

These two loaves of barley bread then served two purposes.

First, they signified the end of the barley harvest which had been harvested over the past 50 days. Note this well!

Second, just as the “waving” of the “omer” of barley clearly foreshadowed the resurrection and rapture of the Lord Jesus Christ and the saints who came out of their graves after His resurrection, so the “waving” of these two barley loaves foreshadows the resurrection and rapture of God’s people [true believers] saved during this present Dispensation of Grace. Folks, the barley harvest is a type of the Dispensation of Grace. Just as the two barley loaves “waved before the Lord” at Pentecost signified the end of the barley harvest, so they also foreshadowed the end of “the fullness of the Gentiles” [Romans 11:25], and therefore the resurrection and rapture of “the dead in Christ” and “the living in Christ.” There are your two loaves! See John 11:25-26 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Now let’s examine some additional proof in God’s Word of what I am presenting, 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

Ruth…..The Gentile Bride

Any serious Bible student knows that Ruth is a type of the Gentile bride of Christ, and that Boaz is a type of Christ. The entire Book of Ruth is filled with Scriptures teaching these truths. Study it for yourself.

When Ruth [the Gentile] returned to the land of Israel with Naomi [the Jewess] “….. they came to Bethlehem in the beginning of the barley harvest,” Ruth 1:22. This gives us the time period involved in this account. The real story of Ruth began on or near Passover and the observance of “firstfruits.”

How and when does the story set forth in the Book of Ruth end? It ends with Ruth’s espousal [and subsequent marriage] to Boaz “in the threshing floor” of Boaz, where Boaz “winnoweth barley,” Ruth 3:2. Folks, that is exactly what the Lord is doing today. He is separating the barley from the chaff [true believers from mere “religionists”] in preparation for the marriage. Glory to God! Hallelujah!

After the espousal had been made on or near the end of the barley harvest [Pentecost], Boaz placed “six measures of barley” on the shoulders of Ruth, and “she went into the city.” Could the six measures of barley be a type of the saved during the 6000 years of human history? 2 Peter 3:8. Could her going “into the city” foreshadow our entering into the New Jerusalem? Folks, Ruth is a type of the Gentile bride of Christ; the Lord’s church, Acts 20:28; 2 Corinthians 11:2. Christ is coming after His bride just as He promised [John 14:1-3], and “they that are Christ’s” shall be “caught up… meet the Lord in the air,” 1 Corinthians 15:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. When? On Pentecost!

The Samaritan Woman

In John 4 the Lord met the Samaritan woman at the well of Jacob [the well of living water]. The Samaritan woman was looked down upon by the Jews, for they considered her to be a “goyim;” a Gentile dog. The Lord revealed Himself to this Gentile woman as the promised Messiah of Israel and the great “I AM.” [Check the actual way John 4:26 is worded in the Greek text].

The Samaritan woman then went into the city and proclaimed, “Come, see a Man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?” Folks, this is exactly what the Lord’s church has been doing the past 2,000 years; inviting the lost world to come to Christ. Some readers may object to using this adulterous woman as a type of the Lord’s church. I suggest that before you become too “self-righteous and holy” you ought to read Paul’s inspired statement to the church in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. When a repentant sinner is “justified,” they become as spiritually pure as if they had never known sin. Sure this woman had previously had five husbands and was living in open sin with a man right then, but has it ever occurred to some of you that Ruth wasn’t a “virgin” either. She also had been previously married. Yet she is a wonderful type of the pure, virtuous Gentile bride of Christ. So is the Samaritan woman. Glory to God! Praise the Lord!

Now notice that the Lord’s disciples came on the scene and urged the Lord to eat. The Lord’s reply in John 4:34-36 is so enlightening.

“…..My meat [food] is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.

Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh the harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both He that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.”

Folks, Christ Himself is the “sower” who began sowing the seed at the beginning of the harvest season. He said so Himself in Matthew 13:37. He is also the “reaper” who brings the harvest to an end. That is exactly what He is stating in John 4:34. He is the One who will “finish the work” that He began. Praise the Lord!

But when is the work to be finished? Folks, it is exactly four months between the Festival of Pentecost and the Festival of Tabernacles. Count it for yourself. So it is obvious that the Lord met the Samaritan woman at Jacob’s well on the day of Pentecost. Folks, the Festival of Tabernacles is the celebration of all the completed harvests [barley…wheat…grape] at the end of the year. But there, on the day of Pentecost, the Lord explicitly told His disciples, “DO NOT SAY…..There are yet four months, and then cometh the harvest….” The Lord told His disciples the harvest was ready right then and was being reaped that day. What day? The day of Pentecost!

Folks, the Lord is coming to resurrect and rapture His New Testament saints to glory at the end of the barley harvest on the day of Pentecost. Glory! Praise the Lord! Hallelujah!

Other Scriptural Proof

I would also suggest that our readers carefully study the feeding of the five thousand as recorded in Matthew 14:13-21, Mark 6:30-44, Luke 9:10-17, and John 6:1-13. This event typifies the entire Dispensation of Grace and the regathering of the 12 tribes of Israel. The Scriptures are quite explicit that the feeding of the 5,000 was accomplished with “five barley loaves, and two small fishes.” Glory!

Our readers might want to just take your concordance and look up the word “barley” everywhere it occurs in God’s Word, and study the context where it is used. Such a study is very enlightening.

But what about…..

Rosh Ha-Shanah…?? “That is the day the trumpets are blown, and the rapture is clearly associated with the blowing of a trumpet, so it must be the day the rapture will occur. Right?”

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! If God’s people would seriously get into God’s Word, they would find that the trumpets were blown on every Jewish holy day. Read it for yourself. The inspired instructions for making and using the trumpets are given in Numbers 10:1-10. Verse 10 explicitly states, “Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God: I am the Lord your God.”

Folks, the trumpets were blown on every day of significance to the Jewish people throughout their whole year. If all you have to connect Rosh Ha-Shanah with the resurrection and rapture of God’s people is the blowing of trumpets, then you have nothing.

Further, Rosh Ha-Shanah is not one of the three Jewish Festivals. Habakkuk 2:3 explicitly states “For still the vision [of the Lord’s coming for His people] is for the appointed festival…” Folks, the Lord is not going to violate His own Word. The resurrection and rapture of God’s people is going to occur on one of the three Jewish Festival during the course of Israel’s year. Rosh Ha-Shanah is not a festival!

Again, Rosh Ha-Shanah comes in the end of the year just 15 days before the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles. Tabernacles comes four months after Pentecost. The Lord explicitly told His disciples, “DO NOT SAY, there are yet four months…” until the harvest. Are you one of the Lord’s disciples? Are you listening to Him?

The Rosh Ha-Shanah theory just doesn’t stand up to the testing of God’s Word. I might add that it makes no difference who is teaching the theory. That won’t alter the truth of God’s Word one iota. Almighty God is not a respecter of persons.

The Significance

Folks, the Day of Pentecost this year falls June 8th, however it actually begins at sundown on June 7th in Israel. What are the significance of these dates?

On June 7, 1967 the Holy Temple Mount and the city of Jerusalem were returned to their rightful owners during the Six Day War. That is the “date” when the tender branch of the fig tree put forth leaves, Matthew 24:32. The Lord Himself said, “So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors,” Matthew 24:33. June 7, 1967 is the “date” when the forty year “generation” began, Matthew 24:34. Therefore on June 7, 2007 the fortieth year arrived. However, Israel is still in the 40th year until June 7, 2008. The 41st year will begin on June 8, 2008. What day is that? It is the Day of Pentecost. Is all of this just coincidence? Or is Almighty God trying to tell His people WHEN He is coming?

I am also told that Pentecost marks the 33rd counting of the “omer.” Thirty-three is the Bible number for “promise.” Is this just another coincidence? Some 2,000 years ago the Lord Jesus Christ promised His disciples, “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also,” John 14:3. Folks, the Lord always keeps His Word, and on this coming Pentecost, June 7th – 8th, you will see that for yourself. Glory! Praise the Lord!

“But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief,” 1 Thessalonians 5:4. Do you believe this Scripture? Do you really believe this Scripture? If you do, then you better get with God’s program. Our Lord is coming!


Folks, this truth is so simple that I now realize that the Lord has tried to show me this truth previously, and I was so dense I stumbled right over it.

The “feast of firstfruits” marked the beginning of the barley harvest, and foreshadowed the resurrection and rapture of “Christ [and] the firstfruits…,” 1 Corinthians 15:23.

The “feast of harvest” [Pentecost] marked the end of the barley harvest, and foreshadows the resurrection and rapture of all New Testament believers. Glory!

Isn’t that simple? Such a simple truth that God’s people have been stumbling right over it for centuries.

When I calmed down after the Lord showed me this truth, I went to my calendar and began counting the days until Pentecost. From April 26th, the night the Lord revealed this truth to me, until Pentecost was 42 days. Folks, when I saw this I shouted and cried some more. “Forty-two” is the Bible number for “The Coming of Christ.” Coincidence? You can’t convince me that it was.

Folks, on the date I am sending this study to Five Doves [May 8th], there are only 29 days left to Pentecost. I really tried to get this study ready to post much sooner, but I have had all kinds of interruptions. I really think Satan would like to keep God’s people in the dark right to the very end. But today it is ready! Guess what? “Twenty-nine” is the Bible number that means, “To depart; to leave; to go out.” Just another coincidence?

I know that after all the Scriptural proof I have presented in this study some of you readers still won’t believe it. Well, that is okay, because your unbelief is Scriptural. The entire Book of Habakkuk is “the vision” that the Lord gave to Habakkuk. In Habakkuk 1:5 the Lord said, “Behold ye [Jews] among the heathen [Gentiles], and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.” So dear reader, if you are one of the Lord’s disciples who do not believe what has been presented, don’t feel too badly. You have a Scriptural right to be a “doubting Thomas” if that is what you want. After all, “doubting Thomas” didn’t believe until he saw the prints of the nails in the hands of the Lord Jesus [John 20:24-29], and most of the Messianic Jews today do not even believe there is going to be a rapture. But it is going to happen in spite of all the unbelief, and then you will believe.

Dear readers, you have only 29 days left from the time I am concluding this study, until the coming of our Lord to rapture His people to glory. You can use this time to do those final things you think you need to do. Or, you can use this time to study, pray, fast, witness, set your spiritual house in order, and seek to draw closer to the Lord than you have ever been. The choice is yours! May God give you the grace to make the right choice. And may God have mercy on us all during the next 29 days.


NOTICE: Please do feel free to reproduce this study in any way you can, and share it with everyone you can, in any way you can, as quickly as you can. This will be your final opportunity to sound a warning, and win lost souls to Christ. May God bless your efforts is my prayer. Pastor F. M. Riley

“He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him,” Psalm 126:6.


Reply # 1 - ReplyTo ID: 53963

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Posted By: Joe -
Date: 5/10/2008 4:00:12 PM
Another thought just came to me. We have been discussing the blood moon theory for some time now. Jack Kelley has said much about it. But one conclusion he did point out, was for this theory to work, it would be one interesting summer. Now comes this guy I posted above. This would make one interesting summer and would make the blood moon theory all the more possible. I'm not a date setter, so spare me the long letters of how wrong I am. I posted this for the fun of what if, and discussion material. I know how fast the forums lose their context and turn to something all different than the original post.

Reply # 2 - ReplyTo ID: 53965

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Posted By: SueBwine -
Date: 5/10/2008 4:36:16 PM
Thanks Joe
Our God is simple and He never leaves His people in the dark...What Commander leaves His troops unprepared.
It takes Spiritual discernment to hear the Spirit of the Lord Lets pray for that discernment to spread like wildfire through our family and all who hear will listen to the Spirit of The Lord.. One can read a book all day long and it is just words on a page or it can be living Waters to the thirsty.
All things are possible. Just be ready

Reply # 3 - ReplyTo ID: 53967

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Posted By: Winky -
Date: 5/10/2008 6:44:28 PM
I haven't studied this in real depth, but did look up the verses he refers to. This is the first date setter that has ever had enough back-up that even begins to be convincing enough to consider it all a possibility to me. His "logic" (for lack of a better word) seems to make some sense. I, however, don't know the entire Bible well enough to know context here and if he is within it or not.

Something to pray about and like Jack says, it might be true but if we go past June 8, 2008, and are still here, we know he's wrong. Being ready for it to be in five minutes, on June 8, or in 2012 or whenever, is the most important factor.

Thanks for posting this, Joe. Can't say I agree or disagree. All I can do is hope! And be ready.

Reply # 4 - ReplyTo ID: 53969

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Posted By: KathyGassnola -
Date: 5/10/2008 6:58:42 PM
I believe it is entirely possible, he does make a good point, and as you say coming on the heels of the blood moon theory really gets you to thinking. I guess time will tell, but it is exciting. I pray it is so.


Reply # 5 - ReplyTo ID: 53970

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Posted By: PaulFlannigan -
Date: 5/10/2008 7:09:28 PM
I drafted, then deleted two posts dripping with sarcasm. I'm sensing it is once again time to keep my mouth shut.

I just wanted you all to know that I do try. [Smile]

Reply # 6 - ReplyTo ID: 53971

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Posted By: Danielle -
Date: 5/10/2008 7:53:58 PM
Wow - I was about to draft an e-mail sort of re-butting a date being set, but with all of your responses, I will print this out and read it myself with a discerning heart.

I will admit it feel like we are closer han ever to eternity.

I do believe that the 2nd Coming of Christ will be on a specific Feast day, however I am not sure that the Rapture will be on one at this point, or that we can know when that will be.

No harm done here though - even if it doesn't happen like we think we will still be one day closer!

Reply # 7 - ReplyTo ID: 53973

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Posted By: PattiKline -
Date: 5/10/2008 8:18:47 PM
I personally have always believed that the verse about " no one knows the time or date Etc. etc...was talking about the Physical Second Coming of Christ back to earth ....and I have also felt in my spirit with much study ...that Our Lord always went forth an either showed a sign or told about what his intentions are.
I think that it is more possible that these signs to be for the rapture....for we who are His are not left in the dark.
So keep ready and anticipating with strong faith an trust that Our Lord's Will will be done according to His time and puropse.
Be always prepared in Him and Him in you and remember to Keep Looking Up!

Reply # 8 - ReplyTo ID: 53975

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Posted By: Joe -
Date: 5/10/2008 8:24:51 PM
The reason I posted this wasn't because I support his date setting, but he has done a good job in his research with scripture support. I don't know if he is right or not. But one thing he has done for me, is to really think about what is important, if we do only have 29 days left. I'd ask you to do the same. I've asked this question of myself and others I know. If you answer the question, that is spiritual preparedness, I believe your ready. But if you answered, I'd like to see the ocean or eat that really great meal or spend money. I believe your fleshy and may not be ready. What's your answer?

Reply # 9 - ReplyTo ID: 53978

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Posted By: KathyGassnola -
Date: 5/10/2008 9:12:23 PM
What is really important for me is to be sure that I am ready, and as well to make sure that I have done all that I can to make others ready also. I know we all have loved ones that we worry and pray for, all we can do is plant the seed and pray that it takes root. I also know that the date setting is a no no, however I do think that with so many things going on around us now, we have to know that we are close to being raptured. Perhaps these two articles being so close together is some kind of sign, maybe not the date that he is setting, but still maybe a sign. Who knows for sure. Still as I have already said it is exciting.


Reply # 10 - ReplyTo ID: 53979

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Posted By: JanaFunkhouser -
Date: 5/10/2008 10:09:29 PM
Dear Joe,

Thank you for posting this very interesting article. Like most of you, I was quite impressed with the author's genuineness and documentation of very familiar passages of prophetic scripture. With regard to spiritual genuineness, I believe I can speak for all of us in that we ALL desire to be with our LORD as soon as possible. IF the author of this article is correct, within a month, we will be standing in the presence of our Beloved! (That possibility makes my heart patter!)
With regard to the prophetic scriptures referenced, Jack Kelley just posted a very good article on the Jewish Feasts and their relationship if any to the gentile Bride of Christ. Be sure and read his latest article.
Either way, those of us who are genuinely looking for the LORD's soon return KNOW within our spirits that the time of His return for us is very soon... In that regard, nearness of time, the Spirit is expressly speaking to each of us. So whether He comes on Pentecost this year or at some other date in the near future, our commander and chief, Yeshua, has told us to watch and wait as watchmen and watchwomen on the wall!



Reply # 11 - ReplyTo ID: 53980

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Posted By: Danielle -
Date: 5/10/2008 10:20:49 PM
Ok - I read the article - and it is very thoughroughly researched in my opinion.

I feel a little weird though. The blood moon theory excited me, because my spirit seemed to bear wittness at least that the Lord is using these eclipses to signal signifigant events for Israel, but this article had a different effect on me and caused me to feel a little panicked.

For one, this man is very charasmatic (Praise the Lord! Glory to God...over and over), two he posted on "Five Doves" which in the past has had all sorts of date setters that were wrong...

My heart of hearts wants to be with the Lord, but having a timeline like this makes it hard for me to do anything other than think about this "Scenerio."

We are to occupy - all this not knowing for sure stuff is unsettling a bit and even though it does make me want to quick go out and wittness, I would hate to come off panicked to friends and loved ones, out of a fleshly compulsion, for fear I would scare them away, instead of reaching them.

Does anyone else feel this way?

I also think I might be confused on the context of "No man knows the Day or the Hour" - was this referring to the Rapture or the Second Coming?

Reply # 12 - ReplyTo ID: 53983

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Posted By: Kaye -
Date: 5/11/2008 6:49:46 AM
Danielle...beautifully put...I feel like you but could not have put it as well as you did. You spoke my heart!

Reply # 13 - ReplyTo ID: 53984

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Posted By: SueBwine -
Date: 5/11/2008 7:35:23 AM
I too agree the Blood Moon is where I was Spiritully jumping The 9th of Av is the call to isreals sorrows and the moon eclipes is on that date I'm for the end of July 1st of Aug Watch!!
remember the Church age will be done all eyes on Isreal.

Reply # 14 - ReplyTo ID: 53991

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Posted By: PamelaSwisher -
Date: 5/11/2008 2:57:48 PM
I can't hang my faith on a date. However, the Holy Spirit has been increasingly impressing me with the urgency of the times and that I need to be looking to do God's work and not the world's. I hear God telling me that the fields are white with the harvest and the workers are few. I don't feel that I should be closing up shop and waiting on a hill. I think that being ready for His coming means working in His fields till we are called.
Still, this study only reinforces much of what I feel. The time is short.

Reply # 15 - ReplyTo ID: 53994

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Posted By: GloriaEvans -
Date: 5/11/2008 5:10:37 PM
Very interesting, Joe. One thing confuses me though. Passover this year was April 19/20 making First Fruits on April 26/27. Pentecost would then be 7 weeks later on June 14/15 not June 8th. Comments?

Reply # 16 - ReplyTo ID: 54012

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Posted By: MarkPhillips -
Date: 5/12/2008 3:06:56 PM
I don't believe it is wrong to know the difference
between a tornado, a watch and a warning.
If there are signs in the sky to watch...THEN WATCH.

Does no harm to simply watch. We know we are in the season.
So many want to beat their brothers with their tongues
for simply obeying the Lord. Let's watch all signs available in this season. He is at the door.

A healthy fear of the Lord in these last days is the beginning of wisdom because, once the rapture of the Church has occurred, things are going to get progressively worse over the course of the seven-year Tribulation Period leading up to Christ's return....“Behold ye [Jews] among the heathen [Gentiles],
and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days,
which ye will not believe, though it be told you.” So dear reader, if you are one of
the Lord’s disciples who do not believe what has been presented, don’t feel too badly.
You have a Scriptural right to be a “doubting Thomas” if that is what you want. After
all, “doubting Thomas” didn’t believe until he saw the prints of the nails in the hands of
the Lord Jesus [John 20:24-29], and most of the Messianic Jews today do not even
believe there is going to be a rapture. But it is going to happen in spite of all the
unbelief, and then you will believe.....

Not saying you...don't believe anything. Let's joyfully watch. What an amazing time to be alive brothers and sisters. Amen

Reply # 17 - ReplyTo ID: 54029

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Posted By: ChrisP -
Date: 5/13/2008 4:33:38 AM
Hey Guys

Long time reader; first time poster.

When I read the blood moon stuff out there, I immediately believed that it was significant, but I have no idea what it is significant for. My first thought was that it would be significant for the very end when Jesus comes to defeat the antichrist...which led me to believe that 2008 could be an interesting year (which I've thought for a few years anyway).

I found this particular article very interesting, and very exciting. I'm being cautiously optimistic. We all know that the we will meet the Lord in the air soon; I don't feel like I need to know the exact date. Still, it is so exciting to read things like this...gets me excited all over again. [Smile]

The one thing where I feel like his reasoning is a little
thin is how he picks 2008. It's pretty hard to support 2008 Biblically. I don't believe in coincidences, and it's awfully coincidental that Pentecost and the day Israel took possession of Jerusalem are the same day.

Anyway, very interesting post! God bless.

1 comment:

Brother Mark said...

"Ascension Thursday"

Dear John & Doves:

I was under the impression that First Fruits this year was April 26/27. Even the Orthodox had their Easter on April 27. So forty days after First Fruits is Thursday, June 5th. Pentecost would therefore be on Sunday, June 15th, father’s day.

This reckoning is according to First Fruits being the morrow after the Sabbath after Passover. Nisan 14 was on a Saturday.

This June 5th date is still 2 days prior to the 41st anniversary of Israel capturing Jerusalem on June 7th, 1967.